Original Characters versus Mary Sues
May. 20th, 2010 07:46 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kaitouSo I've been working on this a bit, though it's not as coherent as it ought to be yet. But when I was at Anime Boston, and going to all the writing panels, I was really struck by how much people wanted to talk about OCs and Mary Sues. When ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
twigcollins and I briefly touched on it, that's when all the hands went up. And then the next day at another panel, a huge chunk of time was eaten up by discussing OCs. So obviously this is something People Want To Know About.
And so when I was in Japan and stuck in a waiting room before I was allowed to go visit a plant, and after I'd made a list of all the knitting projects I have planned, I started to write up My Thoughts onYaoi Original Characters.
I think Twig really, really nailed it on the head at our panel when she said that the role of an Original Character (OC) is to illuminate the main characters or to move the plot along. Really, you could stop right here, which I think is what she tried to do, but everyone wanted clarification. Everyone wants to know that their precious OCs, the characters that they actually came up with using their own imaginations are not dreaded Mary Sues, and that they have done a Good Job. Which is only natural. When you're writing fanfic you don't have to worry that someone thinks Kamui is a stupid character...that would be CLAMP's fault, not yours (as long as you haven't made him too OOC).
I tend to think there are 3 types of characters in any story, Main, Supporting and Bit. There's a bit of a sliding scale here, but it's roughly true.
When you're writing fanfic your OCs should be in the same vein as Bit Characters. This isn't to say that they can't have personality, and that readers might not love them....it's just that, frankly, they're not the point. It's not even to say that they can't be POV characters, it's just that the reason they're a POV character is because they're highlighting some aspect of the Canon Character (CC) that we wouldn't get otherwise. There are plenty of Star Trek fics that use McCoy's daughter Joanna this way.
Speaking of Joanna, ask yourself...do I really NEED to create an OC? Try to use Canon Characters where possible. There are probably bit characters that already fit what you want, or have so little character development that they can be made to fit what you want without distorting the character. This has been pretty well done in HP fandom. Since JK likes to give out names and then not develop them. Plenty of fic writers have done great things with Pansy, the Patil twins, the Creevey brothers, the house ghosts...
This was pretty badly handled by Squeenix in Advent Children. There really isn't any reason for Denzel to exist. No no, I know the latest version did a lot to improve the movie, but there's nothing that you need Denzel for that couldn't be accomplished by a canon character, say...Marlene. The audience would have had a much bigger emotional attachment to Marlene suffering from Geostigma and going evil than some kid we've never seen before. Also, we never really needed 3 Sephiroth wannabes either. (Amazingly not one of the three even rates his own wiki page).
But in this case you've decided that you really need an Original Character, a minor canon character just isn't going to cut it. And you want your OC to be awesome OC, but you don't want them to become Mary Sues. How do you accomplish it? Not that I'm an expert, but here's what I think it's important to keep in mind when you're writing OCs.
1. Careful on the appearances. Honestly it doesn't matter if they have highlighter-green hair, or mousy brown...that's not the important thing. The important thing is how much time you spend on it. The only reason you want to be descriptive of OC appearance is as a characterization shortcut. The accountant with the bow tie and sweater vest is not comfortable with the CC suggesting get in on an embezzling scheme. The chick with the Celtic Knotwork Pentacle tattoo can tell your CC which park has the fairy ring you're looking for. In this way appearance is a shortcut to character, so you can show not tell (not that subverting these things isn't awesome).
Compare two of the heroines in Tamora Pierce's Tortall books. The Song of the Lioness Quartet follows Alanna, a girl who goes undercover as a boy to become a knight. She's tiny, with flaming red hair and amethyst purple eyes. And those eyes are brought up a LOT. Physical description wise, Alanna hits a lot of Mary Sue buttons. Then the Protector of the Small series brings in Kel, the first girl to follow openly in Alanna's footsteps. The things that your remember about Kel's appearance after reading the books is that she's built like a tank, and has a fantastic poker face. You could give Alanna raven black hair and silver eyes, and it wouldn't really change anything about who she is. If Kel were slender and her eyes reflected every thought...she wouldn't be the same character.
tl:dr don't waste words on an OC's appearance. The reader doesn't care, and will fill in the blanks with their own imagination. The only reason to elaborate at all is if something about their appearance will automatically tell the reader about who the OC is.
2. Your OC doesn't exist to be awesome. I really get where the super talented, cool, amazing, nice, kickass, selfless OCs come from. You think to yourself, they've got to be pretty amazing to hang with the CC. If my OC is going to interact with Aang and crew, then they must also be some kind of Bender or Warrior, right? Eh. Maybe. Whatever.
But just like how cool the OC looks, it doesn't matter how cool the OC is. It's not about them, it's about the CCs. If your OC is an astrophysicist working for the Stargate program, well, they work for the Stargate program. That's all the reader cares to know. They don't care how many degrees, or credentials the OC has, or that they take judo and and paint watercolor landscapes on the weekends. They're going to get their plot point done, and move on. As the writer you may know how great they are, but telling the reader is going to slow down your story, and set off Mary Sue alarms.
3. Instant BFFs set off warning bells. CCs are actually allowed to like your OC. It's just that an OC becoming an instant best friend and love interest has been so overdone that it sets off a reader's alarm pretty quickly. This is one of the places you should really try and see if there isn't a bit CC you can use instead. Anyone that important, the ex they never quite got over, the beloved childhood friend, you would expect the canon to have mentioned already exactly because of how important they are. But when you write the OC interacting with a CC the two important things to remember are:
Variations on a Theme
Original Villains - You do have more leeway with Original Villains, they clock in more like supporting characters than bit characters. So they can have more scenes to themselves, more descriptions and more eccentricity.
Kid Fic - Kids are pretty popular OCs, because we like to see the CCs being all mushy and parental. And the younger the kid the more you can play with the above rules without risking Mary Sue territory. Baby means you can get away with lavishing more descriptions, specialness, and the CCs will be naturally besotted with the tyke. But a teenager? Forget it, you're straight back in Mary Sue territory. Yes, even if you remember to make the kid yell things like 'I hate you, you're not my real dad!'
But with kid fic more than most types of OCs, you DO have to make sure that they have a distinct character. Let me make that more specific...they should have a character that is not an exact copy of a parent or caregiver. Think about it, how much did you have in common with your parents at age 7? And more important than anything, remember that a kid is a kid, not a small adult. I don't care how precocious they are. (And if there's magic or superpowers or anything involved, please don't make the kid...the most powerful being in the universe. TV Tropes calls it Goo Goo Godlike. Unless you're playing it for laughs, it feels like you've jumped the shark.)
All World, no CCs - Using the canon world, but not necessarily any of its characters. This can overlap with Kid Fic, in that this is often 'The Next Generation' featuring all the CCs kids or grandkids. I think this is mostly popular with things like Star Trek and Star Wars where there's a huge, extremely detailed universe to go play with. Honestly I don't have much advice for you here, because this isn't a subgenre I'm at all interested in. It's not a subgenre that many people are interested in at all, really. But you should write fanfic to make you happy, and if this is what does it for you, go for it.
Examples of Kickass Original Characters:
cesperanza is consistently amazing at everything she does, and OCs are no exception. 'The Bodyguard' is a Due South fic featuring an aging Russian ballerina who is doing her best to get in Fraser's pants. She's an antagonistic force that pushes Fraser and Ray K together (moving plot forward) and forces the characters to examine not only sexual harassment, but the effects of being a honest person in the closet and how that effects your life and relationships. And Olga also manages to be bitchy, haughty, selfish...forgiving, brave, funny and smart in her own right.
You could name any of her fic, and I should stop at one, but I'm going to give you one more, because 'With Six You Get Eggroll' is the epitome of well done Kid Fic. This is another Fraser/RayK Due South story, and in this one there are 6 OC children...and every last one of them has their own personality, and is an utterly real kid. And they all tell you something about Fraser, something about Ray, something about their relationship with each other... it just rocks.
Another fabulous writer issam_storyteller, and in his Torchwood story 'the Rules of Torchwood Three' he goes one further and makes the OC the POV character. Now Nicholas starts off as a bit of a Ianto expy, which is a bit weird because Ianto is the character Nicholas is illuminating the most. But he really comes into his own as a character, that you care about, even though the point of him is to see how the rest of Torchwood functions and interacts with each other, both with and without Jack. Also interesting as he's an OC that grows and changes as a character.
Inout_there's Jeeves and the Tennis Coach, from Wodehouse's Jeeves and Wooster series, Bertie assumes that Jeeves is attracted to the handsome, kind and French! Tennis Coach OC, and has to decide what to do about his own attraction to Jeeves. Facet (the titular Tennis Coach) isn't an extremely well rounded character himself, but he serves the needs of the fic perfectly well to keep the plot tumbling forward. And then in the last chapter, Bertie meets up with bit canon characters Mabel and Biffy, who help highlight exactly what Jeeves sees in Bertie.
Obsession_inc has written a Iron Man Movie!Verse story, Concession, which is a dark, creepy look at Tony/Pepper. Bit Canon characters have been fleshed out...reporter Christine Everhart is our POV character, with Rhodey and Agent Coulson appearing. And Obsession_inc has created some smart, interesting original characters to show you Pepper's non-Stark life. In fact, neither Tony nor Pepper appear in the story at all, but the story is entirely about them.
And for non-fanfic examples (I know, weird, right?) check out Doctor Who. Doctor Who has some fantastic characters that only appear for an episode or two...which is similar to an OC that appears only in one fic. Nancy in 'The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances'... Madame de Pompadour in 'The Girl in the Fireplace'...The Doctor in 'The Next Doctor'...and of course Thomas Kincade Brannigan in 'Gridlock.' We'll never see these characters again (probably) but they're incredibly rich without taking your attention away from The Doctor and his companion.
In books check out Dorothy Sayers' Lord Peter Wimsey mysteries for incredibly rich and three dimensional bit characters. She also has a total Mary Sue hero, and an Author Avatar love interest. But they're GOOD. I know, I still can't believe it myself.
So there it is. I'd like to hear your opinions on all of this. I usually figure out my own opinions to things socratically, so it would be really helpful to me too. And I'd like to hear about any good examples of OCs you know of as well. Thanks totwigcollins for inspiring this, and to flidgetjerome for going over it and reminding me of things like villains.
twigcollins and I briefly touched on it, that's when all the hands went up. And then the next day at another panel, a huge chunk of time was eaten up by discussing OCs. So obviously this is something People Want To Know About.And so when I was in Japan and stuck in a waiting room before I was allowed to go visit a plant, and after I'd made a list of all the knitting projects I have planned, I started to write up My Thoughts on
I think Twig really, really nailed it on the head at our panel when she said that the role of an Original Character (OC) is to illuminate the main characters or to move the plot along. Really, you could stop right here, which I think is what she tried to do, but everyone wanted clarification. Everyone wants to know that their precious OCs, the characters that they actually came up with using their own imaginations are not dreaded Mary Sues, and that they have done a Good Job. Which is only natural. When you're writing fanfic you don't have to worry that someone thinks Kamui is a stupid character...that would be CLAMP's fault, not yours (as long as you haven't made him too OOC).
I tend to think there are 3 types of characters in any story, Main, Supporting and Bit. There's a bit of a sliding scale here, but it's roughly true.
Main characters - These are the reason you're writing the story. Without the main characters, your story goes nowhere.
Supporting characters - These characters will be part of the main plot, and can carry a subplot of their own. Gloucester is a supporting character in King Lear. He interacts with Lear, but you could cut out the whole bit with Edgar and Edmund without significantly impacting Lear's story. (Though it would hurt me, because I love Edmund)
Bit Characters - These are your RPG shopkeepers. They are only in the story to help your Main and Supporting characters get from point A to point B, or to illuminate a point (is this sounding familiar?).
When you're writing fanfic your OCs should be in the same vein as Bit Characters. This isn't to say that they can't have personality, and that readers might not love them....it's just that, frankly, they're not the point. It's not even to say that they can't be POV characters, it's just that the reason they're a POV character is because they're highlighting some aspect of the Canon Character (CC) that we wouldn't get otherwise. There are plenty of Star Trek fics that use McCoy's daughter Joanna this way.
Speaking of Joanna, ask yourself...do I really NEED to create an OC? Try to use Canon Characters where possible. There are probably bit characters that already fit what you want, or have so little character development that they can be made to fit what you want without distorting the character. This has been pretty well done in HP fandom. Since JK likes to give out names and then not develop them. Plenty of fic writers have done great things with Pansy, the Patil twins, the Creevey brothers, the house ghosts...
This was pretty badly handled by Squeenix in Advent Children. There really isn't any reason for Denzel to exist. No no, I know the latest version did a lot to improve the movie, but there's nothing that you need Denzel for that couldn't be accomplished by a canon character, say...Marlene. The audience would have had a much bigger emotional attachment to Marlene suffering from Geostigma and going evil than some kid we've never seen before. Also, we never really needed 3 Sephiroth wannabes either. (Amazingly not one of the three even rates his own wiki page).
But in this case you've decided that you really need an Original Character, a minor canon character just isn't going to cut it. And you want your OC to be awesome OC, but you don't want them to become Mary Sues. How do you accomplish it? Not that I'm an expert, but here's what I think it's important to keep in mind when you're writing OCs.
1. Careful on the appearances. Honestly it doesn't matter if they have highlighter-green hair, or mousy brown...that's not the important thing. The important thing is how much time you spend on it. The only reason you want to be descriptive of OC appearance is as a characterization shortcut. The accountant with the bow tie and sweater vest is not comfortable with the CC suggesting get in on an embezzling scheme. The chick with the Celtic Knotwork Pentacle tattoo can tell your CC which park has the fairy ring you're looking for. In this way appearance is a shortcut to character, so you can show not tell (not that subverting these things isn't awesome).
Compare two of the heroines in Tamora Pierce's Tortall books. The Song of the Lioness Quartet follows Alanna, a girl who goes undercover as a boy to become a knight. She's tiny, with flaming red hair and amethyst purple eyes. And those eyes are brought up a LOT. Physical description wise, Alanna hits a lot of Mary Sue buttons. Then the Protector of the Small series brings in Kel, the first girl to follow openly in Alanna's footsteps. The things that your remember about Kel's appearance after reading the books is that she's built like a tank, and has a fantastic poker face. You could give Alanna raven black hair and silver eyes, and it wouldn't really change anything about who she is. If Kel were slender and her eyes reflected every thought...she wouldn't be the same character.
tl:dr don't waste words on an OC's appearance. The reader doesn't care, and will fill in the blanks with their own imagination. The only reason to elaborate at all is if something about their appearance will automatically tell the reader about who the OC is.
2. Your OC doesn't exist to be awesome. I really get where the super talented, cool, amazing, nice, kickass, selfless OCs come from. You think to yourself, they've got to be pretty amazing to hang with the CC. If my OC is going to interact with Aang and crew, then they must also be some kind of Bender or Warrior, right? Eh. Maybe. Whatever.
But just like how cool the OC looks, it doesn't matter how cool the OC is. It's not about them, it's about the CCs. If your OC is an astrophysicist working for the Stargate program, well, they work for the Stargate program. That's all the reader cares to know. They don't care how many degrees, or credentials the OC has, or that they take judo and and paint watercolor landscapes on the weekends. They're going to get their plot point done, and move on. As the writer you may know how great they are, but telling the reader is going to slow down your story, and set off Mary Sue alarms.
3. Instant BFFs set off warning bells. CCs are actually allowed to like your OC. It's just that an OC becoming an instant best friend and love interest has been so overdone that it sets off a reader's alarm pretty quickly. This is one of the places you should really try and see if there isn't a bit CC you can use instead. Anyone that important, the ex they never quite got over, the beloved childhood friend, you would expect the canon to have mentioned already exactly because of how important they are. But when you write the OC interacting with a CC the two important things to remember are:
a.) There has to be a reason why the CCs like or dislike your OC. They're funny, thoughtful, condescending, passive-aggressive...something. It's not just 'cause.
b.) The intensity of an CC's feelings for the OC is in direct proportion to the role they serve in the story. The ex-girlfriend OC that serves to prove to the CC how much they really love whoever you have them set up with is going to evoke a much stronger emotion from them than the waitress OC that tells them 'yeah, I think I saw so-and-so here earlier.' This also works vice versa. Depending on the universe and characters your working with, your OCs may be utterly indifferent to the CCs.
Variations on a Theme
Original Villains - You do have more leeway with Original Villains, they clock in more like supporting characters than bit characters. So they can have more scenes to themselves, more descriptions and more eccentricity.
Kid Fic - Kids are pretty popular OCs, because we like to see the CCs being all mushy and parental. And the younger the kid the more you can play with the above rules without risking Mary Sue territory. Baby means you can get away with lavishing more descriptions, specialness, and the CCs will be naturally besotted with the tyke. But a teenager? Forget it, you're straight back in Mary Sue territory. Yes, even if you remember to make the kid yell things like 'I hate you, you're not my real dad!'
But with kid fic more than most types of OCs, you DO have to make sure that they have a distinct character. Let me make that more specific...they should have a character that is not an exact copy of a parent or caregiver. Think about it, how much did you have in common with your parents at age 7? And more important than anything, remember that a kid is a kid, not a small adult. I don't care how precocious they are. (And if there's magic or superpowers or anything involved, please don't make the kid...the most powerful being in the universe. TV Tropes calls it Goo Goo Godlike. Unless you're playing it for laughs, it feels like you've jumped the shark.)
All World, no CCs - Using the canon world, but not necessarily any of its characters. This can overlap with Kid Fic, in that this is often 'The Next Generation' featuring all the CCs kids or grandkids. I think this is mostly popular with things like Star Trek and Star Wars where there's a huge, extremely detailed universe to go play with. Honestly I don't have much advice for you here, because this isn't a subgenre I'm at all interested in. It's not a subgenre that many people are interested in at all, really. But you should write fanfic to make you happy, and if this is what does it for you, go for it.
Examples of Kickass Original Characters:
cesperanza is consistently amazing at everything she does, and OCs are no exception. 'The Bodyguard' is a Due South fic featuring an aging Russian ballerina who is doing her best to get in Fraser's pants. She's an antagonistic force that pushes Fraser and Ray K together (moving plot forward) and forces the characters to examine not only sexual harassment, but the effects of being a honest person in the closet and how that effects your life and relationships. And Olga also manages to be bitchy, haughty, selfish...forgiving, brave, funny and smart in her own right. You could name any of her fic, and I should stop at one, but I'm going to give you one more, because 'With Six You Get Eggroll' is the epitome of well done Kid Fic. This is another Fraser/RayK Due South story, and in this one there are 6 OC children...and every last one of them has their own personality, and is an utterly real kid. And they all tell you something about Fraser, something about Ray, something about their relationship with each other... it just rocks.
Another fabulous writer is
sam_storyteller, and in his Torchwood story 'the Rules of Torchwood Three' he goes one further and makes the OC the POV character. Now Nicholas starts off as a bit of a Ianto expy, which is a bit weird because Ianto is the character Nicholas is illuminating the most. But he really comes into his own as a character, that you care about, even though the point of him is to see how the rest of Torchwood functions and interacts with each other, both with and without Jack. Also interesting as he's an OC that grows and changes as a character. In
out_there's Jeeves and the Tennis Coach, from Wodehouse's Jeeves and Wooster series, Bertie assumes that Jeeves is attracted to the handsome, kind and French! Tennis Coach OC, and has to decide what to do about his own attraction to Jeeves. Facet (the titular Tennis Coach) isn't an extremely well rounded character himself, but he serves the needs of the fic perfectly well to keep the plot tumbling forward. And then in the last chapter, Bertie meets up with bit canon characters Mabel and Biffy, who help highlight exactly what Jeeves sees in Bertie.Obsession_inc has written a Iron Man Movie!Verse story, Concession, which is a dark, creepy look at Tony/Pepper. Bit Canon characters have been fleshed out...reporter Christine Everhart is our POV character, with Rhodey and Agent Coulson appearing. And Obsession_inc has created some smart, interesting original characters to show you Pepper's non-Stark life. In fact, neither Tony nor Pepper appear in the story at all, but the story is entirely about them.
And for non-fanfic examples (I know, weird, right?) check out Doctor Who. Doctor Who has some fantastic characters that only appear for an episode or two...which is similar to an OC that appears only in one fic. Nancy in 'The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances'... Madame de Pompadour in 'The Girl in the Fireplace'...The Doctor in 'The Next Doctor'...and of course Thomas Kincade Brannigan in 'Gridlock.' We'll never see these characters again (probably) but they're incredibly rich without taking your attention away from The Doctor and his companion.
In books check out Dorothy Sayers' Lord Peter Wimsey mysteries for incredibly rich and three dimensional bit characters. She also has a total Mary Sue hero, and an Author Avatar love interest. But they're GOOD. I know, I still can't believe it myself.
So there it is. I'd like to hear your opinions on all of this. I usually figure out my own opinions to things socratically, so it would be really helpful to me too. And I'd like to hear about any good examples of OCs you know of as well. Thanks to
twigcollins for inspiring this, and to flidgetjerome for going over it and reminding me of things like villains.
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no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 03:11 pm (UTC)I am really glad you all made me sit down and watch the extended version, it really was much better and solved a lot of narrative problems. But because I wasn't really impressed with the way the original was done, I never would have held out for the extended. Oh well, I may not have gotten much Cait Sith, but there was plenty of Turks, and that's always love.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 03:41 pm (UTC)I guess Denzel just seems to be a bad example for your warnings against OCs/Mary Sues because, well, even though most people haven't watched the Complete version (or care to) because the initial release doesn't manage to patch together its already patchy plot well... but for me, the Complete release is the original version, because it was what was originally intended by the AC team, so when you discuss Denzel at all it's like, "You don't waste that much time, effort, and budget on a character who is completely unnecessary." I honestly don't think Nomura would have put him in there if he hadn't had some reason to... and it has to be a reason that could back up the money required to put Denzel into the movie.
Trust me, they were griping enough already over putting the symbolic!wolf in, they would have gladly left Denzel out if they hadn't known and already felt from the beginning that he was important somehow. It's not that they didn't do a horrible job with explaining his presence in the initial release--they did, but that was a problem of deadline, not necessarily a fault of the storytellers.
Which I guess is probably what bothers me so much about this--it's a problem of deadlines and stupid company decisions, not a problem with the storytellers. (And they even tried to make up for it by making Denzel's story available online--of course, only in Japanese for the longest time--so fans in Japan could actually read more about him and get a better sense of his character and what got left out of the initial release of the film.)
(...speaking of which, don't bother reading the English translation, as it's horrible. We had you watch the Complete version of the film, and that's all you really need to know. XD)
It's kinda the flip-side of what went on with Rowling and the last set of Harry Potter books, where the character of Tonks (and others) made no sense and it was largely a fault of 1) Rowling's inexperience, which, while charming at times, also leads to obvious faults, and 2) her editors being too scared to cross her and actually call her out on the obvious problems with her storytelling.
I mean, one could say that it was a problem with deadlines for her, too, but I would say that's bullshit. The world could honestly have waited a few more years for the story to mature and get cleaned up, and Rowling should have known that she would need to allow for good editing time before unleashing her project on the world. The publishing company wouldn't have pressured her so much if she hadn't let them--the added anticipation might have just made them more money, after all.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 08:37 pm (UTC)We should have a podcast or something where we sit around and talk out these things. Like 'Hardball' only about Fic.
Now we're really into a whole 'nother topic of author intent. I think once it's out for commercial sale, it's a finished product. If the original version hadn't done well commercially, we never would have gotten Complete, whether it was intended or not. And then the original version would have been canon. It's a good chicken and egg conundrum. Did Han Shoot First, or not?
I think if you're going to be part of pop-culture/genre fiction, you have a few different considerations from capital L, capital C Literature and Culture. I mean, you have a little more leeway for cliches (and some are practically mandated by the genre). Aaaaaaand.....I'm sorry, I'm gonna finish my comment when I go home. I don't want to stay at work just to finish the comment, and I don't want to lose what I have written and have to rewrite it later. Please forgive me!
This is how Gackt feels when he realizes he has to purchase yet another version of the same FF.
Date: 2010-05-24 09:05 pm (UTC)G-cat and I were discussing the problem of "finished product" as well, and she brought up an interesting point: Square Enix doesn't treat AC like a movie... rather, their modus operandi is the same thing they've been doing for their main games since FFVII.
FFVII Original Japanese Release--Arguably a playable game, but missing stuff.
FFVII Original NA Release--More info about Zack, Ruby and Emerald inserted into the game as additional bosses, a few more fancy cutscenes, and the full version of Sephiroth's Super Nova attack... While knowing more about Zack isn't absolutely necessary, it certainly helps to fill in a huge gap of Cloud's storyline and gives the audience some idea who Zack is.
FFVII International Version--The Japanese re-release of the NA version of the game.
The same method was used for most of the FF games since then, both Kingdom Hearts, and Dissidia... and probably some of their other games, too, but those are the only ones I can say for certain. (Also, there tend to be more bugs in the original Japanese releases that get fixed in the NA/International versions. I also recall that Dissidia is much more playable and enjoyable in the NA and rerelease versions.) I'd probably hate to be a fan in Japan, because I'd want to hold off on buying the game until the eventual re-release comes out, but then you don't get the glories of having the original game... and yeah.
The funny thing is, in the US we've been left largely out of that kind of loop (merely pining after the sometimes-more-content-added Japanese re-release/International/Plus version), and AC is the first time Square screwed over their NA fans as much as their Japanese fans, with however many releases of it there have been.
So I'm not sure if the same "once published, it's finished" rule applies here, because Square wasn't following those rules with AC to begin with. They were following game business rules, which unfortunately is a lot of, "Well, we have to publish it by this deadline, we'll just release patches to fix it all later."
The thing is, Square doesn't really worry that much anymore if the original version sucks, because they know they'll still get enough people buying the initial releases of their games to set up and pay out for the re-releases. It's a sucky model for us consumers, but it's worked well enough for them, and AC falls directly into that model. It'd be really nice if they'd just sacrifice more time and push games back so they can release a really well-built, unchanged, happily non-glitchy Japanese/NA/International version from the get-go--
Surprisingly, FFXIII doesn't fall into their usual trend. There are minimal changes between the Japanese and the NA/International versions, from what I've heard, and the game itself has a very smooth, happily non-glitchy experience. Dare I call it delightful?
We'll see whether or not that still holds, since now that Square actually outdid itself and didn't follow its usual release pattern, some of the critics claim FFXIII sucks, and Square is stuck wondering what they did wrong.
Hopefully they'll realize it was just bad marketing on their part and NOT the way they released the game.
THAT said and that particular point elaborated upon, I can't wait to see what you say once you get home. XD
Because Obviously FF stands for Fierce Fashion
Date: 2010-05-25 12:40 am (UTC)That is an excellent point about the way Squeenix re-releases their stuff. I feel like at this point I'm supposed to twirl my moustache, swirl my cape and go 'You've gotten away with it this time!' But it is a sucky thing to do to your consumers, and I'm glad they're not doing that to you with XIII.
Anyway...what was I going to say? Oh yes, genre and pop culture. I think of writing a lot like Project Runway...where they give the competitors a room full of car parts and say 'you have 2 days to make a fabulous dress out of stuff you found a a hardware store' and they do. (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/S5FBBVjB_uI/AAAAAAABkfw/JblSzgTvZxo/s1600-h/Project%2BRunway%2BSeason%2B7%2BEpisode%2B7%2BRunway%2BLook%2BMaya%2BLuz%2B1.jpg) Same thing with Nanowrimo, you can do some amazing things when you're working with the constraints you have. And when you work against your constraints you you get this (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/S5FE5lFzxoI/AAAAAAABkiA/dHeapV1HWqA/s1600-h/Project%2BRunway%2BSeason%2B7%2BEpisode%2B7%2BRunway%2BLook%2BEmilio%2BSosa%2B1.jpg).
Hang on, Roxy's demanding I play with her.
Back! she seems pacified for the moment.
Anyway, I think when you're doing something like FFAC...something that's an official tie in vs fic one of your constraints ought to be 'what does my fanbase want from this?' (And this only applies to things that are a follow up vs part of a planned whole. i.e. Star Wars Ep 1-3 is a follow up, the HP books are part of a whole) I'm pretty sure that's where Rufus, Reno and Rude come from in AC.
But I don't think a lot of thought was put into that beyond the the Turks, and...well, adding a bunch more silver haired men. And I don't think they did a bad job with the story that they decided to tell, but I'd be curious to know more about why they decided that that was the story that needed to be told. It's not as if Geostigma existed before AC. Eh, I know it's not really my place, but I wish they could have accomplished the 'you're not alone' theme with the friends he has instead of a new character and ghosts. I wish one of the self-constraints would be to make sure that everyone in the party played an active role in the story and Cloud's 'redemption' instead of being there to throw him.
So to use the Project Runway metaphor again, it's like they made something really, really cool, but still something that looks like it came from a hardware store (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/S5FAtGBbSAI/AAAAAAABkeY/LL9qKZFqYW8/s1600-h/Project%2BRunway%2BSeason%2B7%2BEpisode%2B7%2BRunway%2BLook%2BMila%2BHermanovski%2B3.jpg).
I'm an ungrateful fan, I know. XD XD
Not Fierce Enough!
Date: 2010-05-25 01:55 am (UTC)And yes, I don't agree with the way Square has been working that particular release model... but I'm hoping, like I said, that they're changing it again. We'll have to see--they'd been making enough money the old way that there's little incentive for them to stop, from a "companies like making money so that's what they'll keep doing" perspective.
As for AC and its story, like I said, totally up to you whether you liked it or disliked it... not going to debate that, as my main purpose of debating anything here were the actual mechanics of the storytelling.
As for you and your fan status? Totally not ungrateful, hon. If you are, then so is anyone else who ever wrote a fanfic, which is more often a tribute of love to the series rather than done entirely out of spite. (I mean, you could say, "I got angry Rowling killed Sirius!" and write a huge epic fanfic in which Sirius doesn't die, but at its heart it would still be because you loved something of the original... so it still comes out of love for it.)
So nah, not ungrateful at all!
As for me, I enjoy it for the lovely eyecandy it is and I can appreciate all the hard work that went into it (they didn't use motion capture for any of the fight scenes, which equals instant amazing to me), but if I still write anything, unless it's meant specifically to address AC canon, I still pretty much write and pretend that the Compilation itself doesn't exist.